REACT TO: Notes Reviews YouTube Vids "Modern/Alternative Prog"+"Contemporary Prog"

So this is a bit related to the recent RADICAL RESEARCH Podcast about "GINNCORE."

So some of this is almost a rehash or a similar REACT TO entry, like that last one.

I guess 1st off to actually take these 2 videos separately, when the lines get blurry, and Notes Reviews kind of mentions that at the start of the "Contemporary Prog" Starter Pack video.

I guess Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson I would always put into either or both categories (or my desired label, progressive college rock).

Pain of Salvation, really other than the Road Salt albums, has always been a Prog Metal band. It's just they don't resemble Dream Theater or many of the bands with the Prog Metal tag/style exactly. But I am kind of with Notes Reviews in that in recent years, even citing beyond the Road Salt albums and a lot of Be I suppose, for some reason their sound is heard now almost more "Hard Rock" than Metal. But perhaps when they came up in the 90's and 2000's, their sound, sounded heavy enough, they fit in more with Metal and Prog Metal than Hard Rock.

That kind of opens up the can of worms about Hard Rock vs Metal, etc..more blurry lines, etc. I mean Porcupine Tree at times were pretty heavy, they could be called Metal. And by contrast, Opeth's recent records don't really sound all that Metal either.

So the other point that I can kind of see how these 2 videos differ is the perception I and I think many others have about differing between what the progressive rock community looks for in sound, format, and such within Festivals/Cruises, the small record labels for what is "prog" and what isn't. Or HOW MUCH, etc.

1 way to illustrate this is just take The Mars Volta and compare them to Spock's Beard. They are both modern bands doing a form of progressive rock, but while The Mars Volta are more "out there" and experiment a lot, Spock's draw from the 70's bands more clearly. Also just on textures and influences, I guess it seems more clear that the influences The Mars Volta take are outside of progressive rock artists, whereas Spock's and the hordes of other bands, especially the last 20+ years haven't.

Now the "Contemporary Prog" list almost seems to carry a lot of the KScope style of "Post-Prog" as KScope has said, and I think a high percentage of the artists on that label and on that Starter Pack below draw strong influence from Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson specifically (or Radiohead and Post Rock sound/artists too I suppose).

Other than maybe Phideaux and perhaps Anglagard, who are kind of an outlier in this "Contemporary" or "Modern" list as the album Notes Reviews chose is from 1992, and their history is actually a bit older than every other artist included on either list.



So that all being said, I do agree or at least like a lot of the picks, especially on the "Modern Alternative" Starter Pack.

I would probably pick a few different albums just with those artists
-The Dear Hunter, Act II at least as a recommendation,
-The Mars Volta...as much as I find it flawed, a prog fan who enjoys Frances would probably be good to hear Deloused AND Amputechture
-Coheed Good Apollo 1 is perfect and In Keeping Secrets makes sense. I might go with 1 or both of the Afterman records instead of The Color Before the Sun, even as much as the narrative parts bug me on those Afterman albums.
-Pain of Salvation I agree with Remedy Lane and TPE. Be? I might still suggest Entropia and/or In the Passing Light of Day actually.

-Thank You Scientist- not a bad band, other than how much their singer sounds exactly like Claudio Sanchez from Coheed. I would look towards the band THREE instead actually (Wakepig or any of their last 3 albums)

-Closure in Moscow unfortunately sounds way too much like a The Mars Volta copycat for me.
-Dream the Electric Sleep is a good suggestion, but I would 1st recommend their album Heretics over Beneath the Dark Wide Sky
-I haven't heard Sky Architect nor Barock Project but now want to
-King Gizzard as Notes Reviews mentions, they seem to be about releasing quantity maybe over quality. The 1 record among the 5 or whatever they released in 2017 I have yet to hear, but probably will check out now on his suggestion and as the rating on rym is maybe the highest among those 5 records.


"Modern Alternative Prog"



-Pain of Salvation: Remedy Lane (2002)
(The Perfect Element I (2000), Be (2004))

-Coheed and Cambria: Good Apollo 1: I'm Burning Star IV: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness (2005)
(In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3 (2003), The Color Before the Sun (2015))

-The Mars Volta: Frances the Mute (2005)
(Deloused in the Comatorium (2003), Octahedron (2009))

-The Dear Hunter: Act V: Hymns with the Devil in Confessional (2016)
(Act III: Life and Death (2009), The Color Spectrum (2011))

-Thank You Scientist: Stranger Heads Prevail (2016)
(Maps of Non-Existent Places (2012)

Honorable Mentions:
Sky Architect - Nomad (2017)
Barock Project - Detachment (2017)
Closure in Moscow - Pink Lemonade (2014)
Dream the Electric Sleep - Beneath the Dark Wide Sky (2016)
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard - Polygonwandaland (2017)


Among the "Contemporary Prog" starter pack:

-Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree: I agree with The Raven as I find it my favorite and SW's best. Hand.Cannot.Erase is okay, although I find To the Bone probably slightly better, but that also has a lot to do with I like the poppier tracks Steven Wilson has done. But it's pretty close.
PT, I absolutely do not agree with Fear of a Blank Planet other than how popular that record is. But I find it way too much of a downer and the lyrics hurt the music (and I find the Nil Recurring EP actually better). I would suggest In Absentia or Deadwing as a 1st PT album instead. And Lightbulb Sun at some point. I guess Sky Moves Sideways is fine for the Spacier period, although I can't say I prefer it over some of the others like Voyage 34 or Up the Downstair or even Signify.

-Anathema, both of those albums are good suggestions for anyone who finds his channel especially. I enjoy Distant Satellites and The Optimist about as much as those other 2. WBWH is my favorite, but I find them all pretty close.

-Gazpacho have never done much for me to be honest. They are just bland rock really, although I get why they are on KScope, I keep waiting for them to cover and then make music highly like the song from Marillion.

-Riverside, ADHD is actually the 1 record I quite like from them. Although it's hardly an all-time favorite, but after hearing many albums from and since, it still seems to be the 1 and only album with balls and punch. The riffs are heavy and in your face. And the vocals don't sound too David Gilmour-wannabe-like and airy, like so many of their others. The 2 recommendations, honestly I follow as they are popular, but are unlikely 2 records I desire to check out soon again myself. I suppose 1 suggested album could be the last record with their late guitarist Pietr was on, Love Fear and the Time Machine as I kind of enjoyed that 1 more and I know their fans loved it. I think many new fans were made from it.

-Phideaux. That album is the 1 and only record from him I have spent a good chunk of time with, but the truth it, I recall it was last in 2007 when it came out. But it's a good pick, and honestly 1 I mean to revisit soon as he may be an artist I've slept on a bit too much.

The HM's:
-Motorpsycho are a band I have checked out a bit, but never found the praise many others give them. Notes Reviews comments have me curious about that record though, which is one I don't think I've even heard or read about much. So I may want to check it out.

-The Pineapple Thief have been praised for ages on the forums. I honestly find them WAY too Radiohead-like to ever get into them. They have 1 good song or rather 1 song I like "The World I Always Dreamed Of," the chord progression is nice. Otherwise, I might as well listen to Radiohead except I can't stand Thom Yorke's voice either.

-Ephrat I've never heard of. But I wishlisted that album on rym,

-iamthemorning is a good suggestion, and I know Lighthouse got them a bunch of awards (and I bought the vinyl) but I would still look to Belighted over it by a lot actually.

-Anglagard (An-glah-gahhrrrd) Hybris is often considered their best and I have listened to some of it, but it was years ago. The prog scene love them and that album immensely, and I can't really disagree given my limited experience with their whole catalog.

"Contemporary Prog"



- Porcupine Tree / Steven Wilson: Fear of a Blank Planet (2007) /  The Raven that Refused to Sing (2013)
 (Hand.Cannot.Erase (2015), The Sky Moves Sideways (1995))

-Anathema: Weather Systems (2012)
(We're Here Because We're Here (2010))

-Gazpacho: Night (2007), Tick Tock (2009)
(Demon, (2014), March of Ghosts (2012))

-Riverside: Anno Domini High Definition (2009)
(Second Life Syndrome (2005) , Rapid Eye Movement (2007))

-Phideaux: Doomsday Afternoon (2007)
(Snowtorch (2011), Ghost Story (2004))

Honorable Mentions:
-Motorpsycho - The Death Defying Unicorn (2012)
-The Pineapple Thief - Variations on a Dream (2004)
-Ephrat - No One's Words (2008)
-iamthemorning - Lighthouse (2016)
-Anglagard - Hybris (1992)


That all being said, I would look towards those names I mentioned below and in the REACT TO GINNCORE entry below. And then just consider how many artists Notes Reviews chose (10, 5 from each).

Here's MY STARTER PACK (Novel) for progressive college rock. Now mind you, these all are NOT MY FAVORITES necessarily, but more what albums I would suggest 1st (and 2nd+3rd) to someone who doesn't know these artists.

-dredg - The Pariah, the Parrot, the Delusion (2009) 
(El Cielo (2002), Catch Without Arms (2005))

-The Mars Volta - Frances the Mute (2005)
(Deloused in the Comatorium (2003), Amputechture (2006))

-The Dear Hunter - Act V: Hymns with the Devil in Confessional (2016)
(Act II: The Meaning of and All Things Regarding Ms.Leading (2007), The Color Spectrum (2011)

-Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson - In Absentia (2002), The Raven that Refused to Sing (2013)
(Deadwing (2005) and Signify (1996), To the Bone (2017) and Hand.Cannot. Erase (2015))

-Oceansize - Frames (2007)
(Everyone Into Position (2005), Effloresce (2003))

-Three - Wakepig (2004)
(The End is Begun (2007), The Ghost You Gave to Me (2011)

-Anathema - Weather Systems (2012)
(We're Here Because We're Here (2010), Distant Satellites (2014)

-Mew - And the Glass Handed Kites... (2005)
(Frengers (2003), No More Stories...(2009))

-Kaddisfly - Set Sail the Prairie (2007)
(Horses Galloping on Sailboats (2015), Buy Our Intention, We'll Buy You a Unicorn (2005))

-The Reign of Kindo/Kindo - Rhythm, Chord and Melody (2008)
(Play with Fire (2013), Happy However After (2018))


Honorable Mentions:
Fair to Midland - Fables from a Mayfly: What I Tell You Three Times is True (2007)
Coheed and Cambria - Good Apollo 1 (2005)
Anathallo - Floating~World (2006)
Apes and Androids/Call Florence Pow - Blood Moon (2008)
Godspeed You Black Emperor - Lift Up Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven (2000)
Kiss Kiss - Reality vs. The Optimist (2007)
Muse - Absolution (2003)
Ours - Mercy (Dancing for the Death of an Imaginary Enemy) (2008)
Pure Reason Revolution - The Dark Third (2006)

Bend Sinister - Stories of Brothers, Tales of Lovers (2008)
Bent Knee - Shiny Eyed Babies (2014)
The Family Crest - The War: Act I (2018)
Foals - Total Life Forever (2010)
Kimbra - Vows (2011)
Major Parkinson - Twilight Cinema (2014)
Pepe Deluxe - Queen of the Wave (2012)
Janelle Monae - The ArchAndroid (2010)
The River Empires - Epilogue (2010)
Small Leaks Sink Ships - Face Yourself and Remove Your Sandals (2015)



From (Among) Radical Research's Picks
The Mars Volta
Coheed and Cambria
dredg
Three
Fair to Midland
Mew

2000's (Two Thousands)
Anathallo
Apes and Androids/Call Florence Pow
Godspeed You Black Emperor
Kaddisfly
Kiss Kiss
Muse
Oceansize
Ours
Porcupine Tree
Pure Reason Revolution

2010's (Twenty-Tens)
Anathema
Bend Sinister
Bent Knee
The Family Crest
Foals
Kimbra
Major Parkinson
Pepe Deluxe
Janelle Monae
The Reign of Kindo/Kindo
The River Empires
Small Leaks Sink Ships
Steven Wilson 

REACT TO: Radical Research: Episode 10 GINNCORE

I want to say before getting into the Reaction-To, I am really glad they made this podcast about this style of rock music as I wish more podcasts, youtube videos, articles and discussion took place about it.

And I do enjoy both of their opinions and these discussions as I not only have checked out this one, but a few older ones (the 1 on Italian prog for example, and Ulver both were enjoyable discussion topics).

Radical Research Episode 10 Podcast Link

Cave In
Glassjaw
Mew
The Mars Volta
Deftones
Coheed and Cambria
Three
dredg
Fair to Midland

mentioned but not in detail:
Circa Survive
Jolly

dismissed:
System of a Down
Oceansize
Protest the Hero-too metal/metalcore?

I could make this an extensive criticism if I wanted to and found the time, and even the fact they recorded their longest podcast at nearly 2 hours for this topic, but I will try and limit this Reaction-to as much as I can (or maybe do a 2nd? lol..more likely a spinoff and/or a podcast of my own which could go on for 2 hours as well, but I probably would burn out after no longer than 45 or 50 minutes only due to the fact I was just talking to myself for that long).

First off, I agree on the time frame for the most part, as the bands and this very hard to describe style of Rock and Pop music really came to be in the 2000's. Now semantics of course, but like words like "pretentious" and "listens"..using the term "Oughts/0ughts" is frankly poor use and rather annoying. It is only 1 level removed from "naughties/noughties/n0ughties" blech.

For the love of God, please Call the fucking decade "THE 2000's/TWO-THOUSAND's."

But of course they won't and so much media won't maybe for decades to come when they finally get it.

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2nd point, "Ginncore" while they explained how the term came up per Hunter Ginn's name and they couldn't really find a good word describe these bands. I guess based on that, the style could be just called Allmediareviews-Rock or Allmediareviews-Rock for the 21st Century, lol.

It's purely arbitrary and more or less in no way describes the bands sound or even aesthetic really other than the word "core" referring to coming or having elements of Hardcore Punk Rock.

The bands also that fall-into "Ginncore" and don't? So Deftones, Glassjaw and Circa Survive do  but System of a Down and Oceansize do not? eh, okay.

I would argue being "progressive" or even having a "prog rock" sound/style/influence etc, SOAD and Oceansize find that territory A LOT MORE than those 3.

Cave In? meh, maybe. I can follow why some consider them having progressive elements, I just never could get fully into them. I recall liking either 1 of their EPs, or a few of the songs some of the Kaddisfly fans suggested. But then when I checked like Jupiter it may have been, I was a little underwhelmed. I dunno, they may be a band I could check out again and enjoy more.

I do like some of the names they brought up, the DNA having Faith No More and Jane's Addiction. And even Jeff's point about bands from the late 70's like 10cc, Crack the Sky? (I should hear more from them I guess) and some others who combined pop/power-pop with progressive and/or art rock well.

I.e. bands who weren't pure prog rock, but used it within their songwriting to be melodic and yet artsy.

Those traits didn't begin with Radiohead and Tool really..look at King's X or Jellyfish or Kevin Gilbert or XTC or Tears for Fears (even U2 in some ways), and yes, go back to the 70's, even some of the 60's to a point.

Art-Pop-Rock?

Maybe 1 good way ti describe this stuff is "Art Pop/Rock?"
and for the 2000's, call a lot of it Heavy Art Pop-Rock?

dunno.

The names they included, The Mars Volta, dredg, Three, Coheed, Fair to Midland, and Mew even who maybe a bit of an outlier among that group, all fit/make sense. However maybe not now, but later tonight, I will try and come out up with 10 or maybe even 20 others that I would consider essential among this stuff.

anticipate an EDIT?


I think 1 or 2 that totally would make sense are Oceansize and The Dear Hunter (and TREOS even). Why they didn't mention The Dear Hunter? maybe they don't like or even know them. And I suppose they also have found more attention in the 2010's (TWENTY-TENS) I guess. But this decade, they can be argued to among if not the most important band in this style (Heavy Art Pop/Rock or my term PCR=Progressive College Rock.......or PCPR= Progressive College Pop-Rock ?).

Also the lack of "Post Rock" (and "Math Rock") is surprising, but perhaps they will do another podcast about that or the umbrella of this style.

Okay, so I've selected 10-15 bands/artists of both decades this Century beyond the 6 names they included in their podcast that I consider essential (dredg, The Mars Volta, Mew, Coheed, Three and Fair to Midland).

Obviously there are many others I could include (The Decembersists, Karnivool, 22 and many more).
I guess I think of these artists as important and at least somewhat prolific other than say The River Empires

edit:
2000's (Two Thousands)
Anathallo
Apes and Androids/Call Florence Pow
Godspeed You Black Emperor
Kaddisfly
Kiss Kiss
Muse
Oceansize
Ours
Porcupine Tree
Pure Reason Revolution

2010's (Twenty-Tens)
Anathema
Bend Sinister
Bent Knee
The Family Crest
Foals
Kimbra
Major Parkinson
Pepe Deluxe
Janelle Monae
The Reign of Kindo/Kindo
The River Empires
Small Leaks Sink Ships
Steven Wilson

Radical Research Podcast (Metal, Prog, Misc)

http://radicalresearch.org/

This is a relatively new Podcast that I recall hearing about a few months ago, but didn't manage to check out until this past weekend.

And their latest episode, number 10, is about "Ginncore" or my favorite description, progressive college rock (alt/alternative prog, new-prog, indie-prog). I.e. bands/artists who were influences or share some common traits to the likes of Radiohead, Tool, Sigur Ros and The Mars Volta among others.

This podcast has 2 music fanatics like myself, Jeff Wagner who wrote the progressive metal book a few years back Mean Deviation, and Hunter Ginn.

Jeff now works for the progressive rock record label Inside Out music along with writing other books. He previously was the editor of Metal Maniacs magazine for 5 years.

Hunter Ginn, I honestly don't recall all that much about, but I stumbled across a post he made about the podcast on one of the handful of Perpetual Motion message boards.

edit: he is a journlist who writes about Metal, but I'm not certain for what/where. Metal Archives? maybe among other sites. He also is the drummer for the prog band Canvas Solaris.

The 2 of them both love music, Metal, Prog and other types. And very much into the obscure and ALBUMS more than just individual tunes.

So I haven't listened to it yet, but their 10th episode was just uploaded today (7/24/18) and is their longest at nearly 2 hours long.

I haven't listened to it yet unfortunately, but I will share it:

Ginncore Episode aka HEAVY progressive college rock


If this is as focused as I imagine it is, I'll likely post a REACT-TO entry soon (maybe tonight or
tomorrow).

I'm sure there will be a lot of bands that won't be brought up, and some I may be surprised were (like The Deftones, Glassjaw and Failure per from what I've heard of all of them, I don't know if I would consider them progressive rock really. Glassjaw though were lumped in with Kaddisfly and Fair to Midland at 1 point, but I sensed they really were much closer to purely Post-Hardcore punk rock than the progressive styles of The Mars Volta, Kaddisfly or Fair to Midland).


Also given the 2 people from this podcast are consumers of large amount of progressive rock, and namely MODERN progressive rock, some of the folks I know on other sites/platforms that would be cool to see interact with them perhaps (beyond someone like Greg Massi of The Color of Air podcast/Baliset and other bands along with formerly of the bands maudlin of the Well and Kayo Dot. Who had Jeff Wagner once on his podcast).

It would be cool to include the likes of:
Josh Rundquist (That Drummer Guy)
Jordan Blum (Popmatters, Examiner?, The Prog Report, + others)
Neesh (Neeshcast)
Lorenzo Barbagli (altprogcore)
Roie Avin (The Prog Report)
Anil Prasad (Innerviews)
Notes Reviews (YouTube)

It would be great to get some kind of collaboration or roundtable discussion like The Prog Squad did (and maybe still do under Mark Ashby's Progtopia podcast now).

But time/timing and desire may never see that happen. But in the mean time, Radical Research is a cool new podcast that is doing that, and I suppose 1 part is the METAL DNA of both the hosts. Which is just 1-part, but