"Getting Over" or "Moving Forward" as a Widower

 I'm really fucking sick and tired of seeing people judging myself and others on the timeline thing.

I'm also sick of facing some reality that if I were to date and be in a relationship with another woman again, I have to

a) not be regularly if not frequently talking about Joyce

b) not be crying over things involving or related to her or her and I's relationship

SHE WILL ALWAYS BE TALKED ABOUT AND THOUGHT ABOUT UNTIL THE DAY I DIE.

AND ANY OTHER WOMAN WHO I AM IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH WILL NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, FOR YEARS, DECADES EVEN.

If that prevents me from ever having another relationship, so be it I guess. Although that in a lot of ways gives me reason not to want to stick around as long as I could I suppose.

If you're one of those people, women specifically who think "You need to get over her" or "You're not ready because all you do is think about and talk about your late wife" 

and even if you're a Widow yourself, you can go FUCK YOURSELF!

That to me is some of the most INSENSITIVE, JUDGEMENTAL OPINIONS that could be said to someone whose suffering.

Dream last night (12/17/25)

I was with Joyce. I don't know if it was supposed to be now or many years back.

I know I was consoling and hugging her but she also was at the doctor's office. But I was a little hesistant to get close to her in that others were around to see. Why I wonder if it was actually many years ago, earlier in the time we were dating or now.

That's all I can remember now.

My light in my living room, well multiple lights sort of, has been flickering a lot over the last few days. I sometimes wonder if it's her or just the circuit in my house. The wire or connection, etc.

Maybe someday more of this will make more sense to me, I'm unsure.

Struggles

 My company will be gone in the near future, and thus my job. After over 21 years being there, it will be no more in the near future, and I won't be with them. Before this blog even existed.

I can say, this has been 1 of the hardest weeks since she passed away, and I would give anything right to have her help me through this. 

I know it wouldn't be easy, but like when she was furloughed or her grief when some celebrities she loved died like George Michael, Michael Nesmith, etc...I was there for her as best as I could be to give her a long, deep hug.

But, I don't have her for that for me now.

I guess that's my new normal.

Someday..someday I will write a novel length story or stories about my work there. It was for nearly half my adult life anyway. I saw so many people and things come and go in that time.

Two Thousand and Fucking Four.

It feels like ages ago, yet at the same time, it almost feels like yesterday in a way.

Dear Mama 11/30/25

Ever since Joyce passed away, and her funeral, I have tried to visit her at least once a week at the Cemetery in St.Paul. And I've made every week but one that I can remember.

When I visit her I talk to her about how I'm doing, what has happened since the last time I was there. It is good therapy for me and gives me often a sense of peace. I eventually brought a lawn chair and it's normally just me sitting there, talking to her, for between 15 minutes to sometimes up to an hour.

And it's been mostly on Sunday afternoons. Late afternoon really; between 5-6:30pm. (I have often had the American Top 40 on KOWZ when I go there, which airs every Sunday Afternoon 2-6pm)
However, once we hit Daylight Savings Time, that became too late as I didn't want to go there when it was dark.

And now within the last 5 days, the temperatures have gone down enough, including snow yesterday 11/29/25 that going there, being outside, isn't as desirable to do.

So drawing inspiration/suggestion from my Aunt, I am going to start writing Joyce letters as an alternative. I'm not sure if it will be every week this Winter, per ideally I would have gone to the cemetery today, but I went to see Zootopia in Eagan, and picked up some homemade Popusas down in Rosemount from someone on Facebook. And so the timing just didn't work today. But I may manage to go on Wednesday as I have PTO that day and am going to the Minnesota History Center to celebrate Joyce's 10 Year Anniversary at MNHS (December 1, 2015 was her Orientation at the Library).

But in the mean time, I will try and write these letters. And mind you in order to do something similar if not the same things, I need to write like I talk to her, with a lot of INSIDE BASEBALL stuff that many people reading this, just won't fully understand. Like many couples, Joyce and I had our conversations about things only we knew, etc. People, names, etc.

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letter removed here.

Kevin Gilbert (+Sheryl Crow) with Joyce

I just put this on Joyce's memoirs Substack here

 This is a follow up to this little (fictional) thing I wrote a few months ago and passed along last Thursday

Sometime in the late Summer/Early Fall of 2004, I bought and heard the Toy Matinee CD, which was one of the late Kevin Gilbert’s bands. It kind of changed my life or at least introduced me to who would become my favorite musician ever.

So, when I met Joyce in 2011, at KFAI radio, we talked about our taste in music and our favorite bands and musicians. Joyce loved The Monkees and maybe even more, Michael Nesmith. So, in talking about music and getting to know each other, we made mix tapes which I believe I went over in this video on YouTube soon after she passed.

And I included “Last Plane Out” I believe on 1 of those mixes. And I later burned or maybe even lent her a copy of the Toy Matinee cd. I myself ended up listening to some Monkees and Michael Nesmith not long after that as well. Especially before we saw The Monkees in July 2011.

Well Joyce wasn’t all that grabbed by Toy Matinee. She didn’t hate it, but she wasn’t loving it enough to go back to it. So, I kind of put on hold trying to get her into Kevin Gilbert’s music for a while. Eventually I ended playing her a song titled “Finally Over You” which was only recently released on Kevin Gilbert’s estate compilation “Nuts” in 2009.

She did really dig “Finally Over You,” and came to play it occasionally on YouTube (it-was, but sadly, now is not available to stream on there or anywhere online I don’t believe).

Kevin Gilbert’s estate started releasing a lot of limited printed items more or less in 2009 and have continued through just this past Friday. A lot of unreleased recordings from his bands and solo work. In the time I was with Joyce, they came out periodically. I would estimate maybe around 20 releases, some re-released from out-of-print titles, to covers, to live recordings, to demos, etc.

I was buying them all of course, and I would almost always put them on, often in the car, so Joyce would hear them. She got to know Kevin’s voice among other things. But other than the 1 tune “Finally Over You” she never gravitated to any other tracks really.

Even when Kevin and his live Toy Matinee bandmate Marc Bonilla covered The Monkees “Pleasant Valley Sunday” on the radio once (KLOS). Kevin said though “no ba ba ba’s” lol.

Also many things would come up that I got to point out to her, with the connections Kevin Gilbert had to many musicians she enjoyed. And she rolled her eyes at me, and I couldn’t help but grin and laugh at her.

-Sheryl Crow was Kevin Gilbert’s girlfriend. Sheryl played on the live touring version of Toy Matinee in and is on “Live at the Roxy” on keys and background vocals in fact. Joyce was a pretty big Sheryl Crow fan. She enjoyed her 90’s music especially including the “Tuesday Night Music Club” album, which was in effect her debut album (she had a previous album that was and may still be unreleased though).

Much of the music on Tuesday Night Music Club album was actually written by Kevin Gilbert and his co-musicians who would jam on Tuesday nights, hence the name. Kevin was still dating Sheryl at the time. Joyce however, was not aware of who Kevin Gilbert was until meeting me, including him and the others on that album really.

-Joyce enjoyed Moulin Rouge! likely driven by one of her Hollywood guys Ewan McGregor’s role. On the soundtrack, the tune “Come What May” is included, which was composed by Tuesday Night Music Club members David Baerwald (of David + David fame also), and Kevin Gilbert.

-Christian Nesmith whose one of Michael Nesmith’s sons, is a musician himself and a progressive rock fan. Citing bands like Yes and Rush among others. He even has a close relationship with a band I love, Joyce only heard about through me, in King’s X. Christian Nesmith along with his wife Circe Link, have done many covers on YouTube (and TikTok more recently), which include two Kevin Gilbert tunes. “Parade” and “Suite Fugue” which are both from Kevin Gilbert’s posthumously released rock opera “The Shaming of the True.”

That is all from the son of Michael Nesmith, her favorite musician ever, and at 1-time, live member of The Monkees and Michael Nesmith reunited “First National Band.” And who played-on and produced Monkees work in the last decade (2016’s “Good Times” and 2018’s “Christmas Party” along with Micky Dolenz releases “Dolenz Sings Nesmith” and “Dolenz Sings R.E.M.”).

-Neil Peart, the late drummer from Rush, cited a few times loving The Monkees. I am a huge Rush fan, but Joyce never got into them. But she found it odd and ironic how the drummer for one of my favorite bands loved her favorite band.

-Kevin Gilbert engineered “Black or White” from Michael Jackson and worked with Patrick Leonard of course as part of Toy Matinee. Patrick Leonard being the producer of several of Madonna’s biggest albums in the 80’s. Joyce was a rather big fan of both MJ and Madonna

To quote my friend John “Sometimes my people are your people.” But Joyce dismissed that idea, kind of not wanting to accept it if not in disbelief. Joyce did not like progressive rock. “It hurts my brain!” "You can't dance to it" and “It has no soul,” but as it turns out, some of her taste aligned with some of it oddly. Daryl Hall (of Hall & Oates who Joyce loved) worked with Robert Fripp of King Crimson on one of his solo albums, etc.

Even Michael Nesmith himself made the concept album The Prison, and The Monkees did the experimental film Head, which includes a cameo from progressive musician and friend of Michael Nesmith’s, Frank Zappa (who also appeared on a Monkees episode with Nez)

Even the 2nd time we saw one of the modern bands she enjoyed, The Bird & the Bee (which was just half the band, Inara George per the other half, Greg Kurstin didn’t and may still not actually tour live), there was a group of my fellow progressive rock fans at the show. Joyce came to roll her eyes thinking the “Prog fans” enjoyed her band and music, lol. But it happened, or happens, much to her dismay and lack of ability to understand why.

As the years went by, Joyce would make comments about Kevin Gilbert to me. “Thanks Kevin, I didn’t need to know that” or “Sorry Kevin” or “Oh, it’s Kevin.”

One was “he’s not hot.” She said something to the effect just like a year ago. “He’s not bad looking, but he’s like Where’s Waldo.” “He looks clean and nice, and is a talented musician and singer, but he doesn’t have that striking, hot sexy look that many women can be drawn to” “He didn’t make it big, and it seems part of it was because his looks.” “Like, he’s not bad looking, but he’s doesn’t really have it like George Michael.”

Which oddly enough about George Michael, Kevin Gilbert once said about his tune “Careless Whisper” and the lyric “guilty feet have got no rhythm” was genius. I don’t recall if/when I mentioned that to Joyce, what her reaction was. It likely was just “yeah, thanks Kevin.”

The commentary that I passed along to her at times with Sheryl Crow and Kevin Gilbert fans struck a bit of a nerve with her. She came to look down on some of them; although not me, mind you. I never was into Sheryl Crow’s music really but did not beat a dead horse bringing up the fact he died after they broke up. How he took his own life, and fans blamed Sheryl Crow for it. The sort of rivalry they had a bit after that and her album won Grammys, and it took some work to have all the credits being given to Kevin and the members of the Tuesday Night Music Club.

The Kevin Gilbert fans have historically made comments for years online, and even some articles written. Joyce would give me comebacks to them, talking about how many of the Kevin Gilbert fans were super bitter and misguided in their blaming her, etc. Which I didn’t and can’t disagree with her about. What happened to Kevin Gilbert and his reaching and failing to fully “make it big” in the music industry and even Hollywood to a degree, had much to do with his own personality sadly.

Sheryl had the quote in 1 of the stories I’ll never forget “Kevin was one of the most self-destructive people I’ve ever met” which came out in an article written not long after he died, and Sheryl may have been bitter about things. How some people within his circles viewed her. I guess at his funeral perhaps. I’m not sure. I do suspect now so many decades later even, Sheryl wouldn’t necessarily use those words or may not quite feel that way about him still.

She did mention and include a little about Kevin in the documentary, Sheryl, about her a couple of years ago. Although Sheryl Crow I think had creative control of it, so the amount of content about Kevin Gilbert in it was maybe limited, if for no other reason, but to not create any tension among his fans (time of course as well). I see that, per it’s sort of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If she had talked in-depth about Kevin, it would raise potential controversy. But when she did not talk much about him, of course many Kevin Gilbert fans wonder why, and think she could still be bitter, etc. It was probably best to limit it, and avoid as much content about a potentially sensitive topic still.

Kevin Gilbert would have turned 59 this past week on November 20th. He will always be a favorite of mine, but also a musician who Joyce had mixed feelings about, despite my longtime obsession with his music. My interest to want more people to hear and hopefully discover his music.

There is this appearance on Used Bin Radio in 2011 with Joyce and I where the hosts Brad and Joe bring up Sheryl Crow and Joyce’s take on her music and Kevin Gilbert’s among others. I introduce her at the 12:45 mark, and she is on from the 13:19-24:48 mark.

There’s also this recent opinionated video that sums up a lot of it, although the creator doesn’t consider anything over the last 29 years with Sheryl, although some of the comments do.

In The Shaming of the True and on a live record “Live at the Troubadour,” Kevin Gilbert references and alludes to Sheryl on songs like “Fun” (“Sheryl’s in the kitchen with the LA Lakers”) and “Miss Broadway.” It didn’t occur to me until a few years ago, “Fun” is blatantly a reference to the lyric on “All I Wanna Do” “All I Want to do is have some fun.” Joyce though, never heard either, which probably was for the best. I generally made and kept the peace with this whole situation. Much like avoiding questioning her lack of appreciation or even respect in some ways for The Beatles, bringing up conflict with Sheryl and Kevin was not somewhere I went with Joyce per I knew she would give me an earful, and the end result wouldn’t be beneficial.

Joyce was always like that with me. She didn’t pull many if any punches, regardless that it was about someone or something I love (Beavis and Butthead in recent years as well). Despite my hoping to connect with her with things I love, it often didn’t work. I was not happy for that, but I still respected that about her.

Everything happens for a reason

Before I met Joyce, I think I was just super unlucky with women. The kind of women I tried to meet, I never did. The ones I did, didn't really connect with me for a few reasons. Their lifestyle and priorities. And when I met Joyce, it was like some huge exception. And when it happened I sort of rode the wave, but didn't really believe it was fully happening to me at 1st.

She loved music like me. Maybe in some ways more than me. That is so rare to find in a woman, a woman who was single especially.

But maybe it was meant to be? Or maybe it was just luck. Why did I go back to KFAI when I did? I could have easily blown it off, even after meeting her a couple of times. Maybe she would have wanted to stay in touch later and then we could have still ended up together? Maybe. But more likely not.

She probably figured I was looking for a woman into Prog or into Sports or Star Trek; none of which she cared for in the least. Also, my guess is she would have dated someone else had she not met me, or even had I left KFAI. I mean maybe not, given some of her friends were single and still are. Joyce was sort of part of the singles club within her friends.

I just think some other guy would have won her over eventually, had it not been me.

So, it leads me to a thought though about my current and future approach. Some discussion about cafes to do wrirting work in, in the Twin Cities. I went to a place called "The Lost Fox" the other night in the lowertown area of downtown St.Paul. It is literally like 2 businessess down from the old Station 4 club that I saw at least 2 or 3 dozen concerts at from 1999-2012-ish.

The Lost Fox is kind of a hybrid of a Cafe and a Restaurant. A lot of tables, games to play, and it serves coffee and baked goods along with it having a kitchen. I talked to this nice young woman named Malla whose parents I guess own it.  I needed a quick bite to eat, and she suggested the burger, which was a very strong recommendation. So much so, I would definitely go back for the food alone.

They did have a decent crowd in there though, and pretty urban. Although given it was in the evening (7:30pm), I wasn't too surprised. So, I probably would lean towards my next visit at an earlier hour. Maybe even like a late morning/early afternoon on a Weekend.

But amongst my exploring places to blog, read, and people watch, the cafes and maybe even restaurants, I have not-but intend to check out more cafes. I guess my previous thoughts were like Caribous and maybe Starbucks. But some of the more independent, mom-and-pops might be other good places to keep in mind. 

I heard about the Lost Fox via a local Facebook Group "Twin Cities Geek Community" I think it's called. But among the comments, there were many other venues suggested about someone looking for a quiet Cafe. Although a lot of them were in Minneapolis, which may be less easy for me to commute to, at least regularly. But I should keep a list or 2.

Part of the issue though with The Lost Fox is being downtown, you have to pay to park, save for on Sundays I guess. But from my memory, some of these others, I wouldn't need to.

-J.S. Bean Factory - Randolph
-Wildflyer Coffee - West 7th Street

-Claddagh Coffee - Selby Ave

-Cafe Astoria - Grand Ave

-Black Sheep Coffee - South St.Paul

-Dunn Brothers - Grand Ave
-Amore Cafe - Smith Ave

These are just a few per I'm sure there are others. And I'm not ruling out going to several different Caribous as well. Eagan, West St. Paul maybe and Inver Grove Heights.

Perhaps even some other cities that aren't vastly further like Woodbury, Burnsville, Richfield, or Apple Valley even. I'm not sure. Part of it is repeated visits, etc, to get a good sense about the people who go to these places.

My thought process is, some of where and why I go to these places are just random timing, sort of like how I met Joyce. It's like things happen to us in 1 way, but had we done 1 thing, or in this case been in 1 place at 1 time, and it can dramatically impact our fate and future. And in the case of finding someone we meet and even care about and love, it literally can come down to something that specific and finite.

Which in a way really is sad and almost depressing in a lot of ways. Unless you believe in fate and you are where and when you are because it was your destiny. I mean there are almost an unlimited amount of scenarios of things that can happen in your life depending on these little things and timings. I suppose if I worry about it too much, I'll be driven crazy with anxiety. "Well, I need to go to this cafe at sometime in the next 3 weeks, or I'll never meet the woman I'm supposed to marry" or whatever. 

I almost think my life, people's lives are being manipulated, like pawns in some bigger simulation we don't know about. Almost like how scientists set up experiments with mice with different drugs to test.

Why are we here? Because we're here, roll the bones.

So, my meeting Joyce on a chance back in 2011 was something that happened by some much larger than we understand experiment. And what my *fate* brings now is also that.

It makes you question why you question anything in some ways. It's definitely a feeling of powerless-ness. Like you see yourself as sort of a pawn in the human experience.

I mean why did I meet Joyce then? I had suffered miserably with (lack-of) romantic relationships for years, not unlike many, including many other guys I knew. And then 1 day, boom, some woman actually likes me and I like her. Like it was just luck or fate or odds or something. Or maybe both her and I had been sick and tired of being alone. I may never know unfortunately.

But I will definitely think, if I end up meeting some other woman in a scenario where I easily could not have, then I'm going to start believing I am a fucking pawn.

I fucking give up.

Or, maybe some people are just appealing enough to love many people in a situation they are available. Maybe that could be it. But the whole mono-soulmate idea is not universal, even for more or less all people who believe in monogamy.

I.e. a large percentage of the human race could love and be in-love with a lot of different people, if their heart is not taken at the time.

Fuck. I still don't get it, other than in some ways I wish I could stop thinking about this shit. But when you have your heart broken and then suffer loneliness, you just want something, almost anything to help it feel better. And meeting someone else is always what it comes back to, for now.

or just give me a fucking lobotomy and I won't have to think about this shit anymore.

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