Joyce never saw Fast Times at Ridgemont High, but she enjoyed this tune. I've heard it 50 times since 2020, mostly per Jake Rudh and on American Top 40 on KOWZ on Sunday afternoons. It's a lot to do with her, but also nostalgia I 1st seeing Fast Times in HS in the early 90's. Joyce wasn't huge into Jackson Browne, but this was an exception. It's romantic + 80's which Joyce loved.
It came on this past Sunday, and the earworm came to me this afternoon and then the grief trigger.
https://joycelopezmemoirs.substack.com/p/songs-that-made-me-cry-neneh-cherry
Jake Rudh started playing the video for this song in 2020 on his video show “Transmission” on Twitch. It reminded me of 7th grade, and I how much I loved it.
”Who's looking good today?
Who's looking good in every way?
No style rookie
You better watch, don't mess with me
No moneyman can win my love
It's sweetness that I'm thinking of
We always hang in a buffalo stance
We do the dive every time we dance"
I feel like I should have a sign on my head and back that states.
I'm exotroverted, I'd love to talk if you either are extroverted or would like to get to know an extrovert
or
Extroverts Unite
I have
Sports: The thing I loved the most as a kid. I dreamed of being a Major League Baseball player. I later felt like I wanted to be a Sports Writer, Journalist and even Radio show host. None of that ever happened. I wasn't a great athlete, but was okay. I played Soccer and Basketball in High School, but never was a starter on the Varsity. I maybe peaked when I was in Junior High. I drank coffee in and 8th and 9th grade which may have stunted my growth.
I felt like I knew more about Sports History and Statistics than most if not all my peers. But ultimately it didn't matter. I didn't want to work in some small town and have to do the "Who, What, Where, and Why" way of writing. I wanted to do and write MY OWN WAY. But that ultimately was never going to work.
College: I went to a College Prep High School and like most there and my peers, was expected to go on and earn a degree and get a professional job. Well, I spent 1 year away from home at a 4-Year State College that was had a LD program. However the person who ran it, left when I started. The LD program was limited and beyond that lack of help, being depressed and struggling to be motivated in some of my classes, I failed out. I did well in some classes like English and a Government class. But my Pre-Calc math class and the Geoology class got me bad. Too much homework and the grading oin a curve didn't work for me. I also had a class the 2nd semester that I didn't attend for many weeks, I got too far behind in, and I also couldn't drop. I might have been able speak to the professor, but it was too late.
So, I failed out and owed money from a loan. So I left the College, went on to a CC and worked. I did okay at the CC, even got an internship at a radio station, but even that was sort of limited and I didn't impress them enough for them to want me to continue. Cutting tape, gathering sound, faxing newspapers at a sports station. The interns going into that field likely had to start and be in a small town for many years to have a shot. Plus it didnt pay a lot and was competitive.
I decided to pass. I would have liked to have done radio, HOW I WOULD WANT TO DO IT. And not going to work in the middle of nowhere and living miserably.
Radio: I volunteered at KFAI while working a FT job. I wanted to play the music I loved for more people. I subbed many times and volunteered at station events. Applied for like 10+ shows in 3 years, and wasn't picked by their Program Committee once. A lot of the shows were either Midnight-2AM or 2-5/6AM. I was a Night Owl, but ultimately those hours were still challenging from a schedule and sleep cycle.
I doubt I would have kept that weekly gig for many years if 1 of those shows was given to me mostly due to the hours. But the fact I wasn't selected once out of like 10 times still has me view this as a failure. I should have been picked. But I wasn't.
But I also believed and actually still believe, I should have had and still have a chance to do a radio show playing progressive rock and my other favorite things at a reasonable hour. 6pm-10pm? or A morning or afternoon on a weekend. But it may never happen given how a lot of these radio stations are run.
I also pursued internet radio, but that got to be a failure before it even started. Too many others doing it, having to pay royalties and needing permission from the artists and labels. Blah Blah Blah. TOO MANY HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH.
The same can be added to Podcasts (which I in a small maybe non-failure way, I may have figured out a workaround).
And of course I played a song I shouldn't have on KFAI and had to go away until I returned where I met Joyce which was a Success at least in that way.
Blogging: I kept a livejournal and then this blog for over 20 years between the 2. This blog has reached some, but it still is undeground and talks about things no other blogs really talk about. Social Media though I feel could be in some ways, what could see it as a Failure.
It wasn't cited on Twitter and Facebook like it should have been. The limited subscribers given how much content and time has been put into it suggests that. Is it fair? no. Is it a Vanity thing for myself? yes, but I still see that to some degree as a partial failure. By comparing it to other music media sites and people, it is a HUGE FAILURE.
To me, so many of those people who write about music are boring and my content is better. MUCH BETTER. Is it due to lack of an editor or the grammatical errors? In my HEART I don't believe so. It's not about perfection, it's about COMMUNICATION. If I was PAID TO WRITE IN HERE. Franly, a LIVE-ABLE WAGE, the editing and grammar would be more prioritized.
However, I would still have the LAST SAY and still be the editor myself. That is how I feel comfortable writing. If I take a writing class, I may have to give in and compromise that, but just on for what I do IN HERE, THIS IS MY SPACE TO WRITE. It is 100% driven by MY OWN approach. Thus, I don't like being edited or having my words changed by someone else. Even if grammatically they may be better.
I want this place to be 100% ME and I own it. I know many great, successful writers and bloggers have ediors. That is where I feel I stand out in a good way to me. Me Myself and I (I know it's self-centered/selfish in that way).
YouTube: Started in 2014 with very little expectations. 812 videos and 478 subscribers later. Failure? uh huh. So many other people have done it with in much less effort and time and had way more success. Why I still think it's destined to go on a long hiatus at some point. Is it fair? no. The algorithm, not being female, not spamming people and trying to force-feed the algorithm my channel. YouTube hates my channel. In some ways the polar opposite of this blog or was with Google.
I figured 1 Million Hits in like 11 years in this blog with this same name? that alone should have warranted 1000 subscribers. People sometimes watch but don't sign-in and subscribe. Joyce did that very thing. Stupid fucking algorithm.
The videos go 30-50 minutes often? yes. It's unedited and a podcast. Why should that matter? people have shitty attention spans? Or I'm just not good at it. I'm boring or not engaging enough for people. I know I talk about obscure, unknown bands in there. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. But even with that much obscurity, it still should have found more subscribers. Some of the most boring, wastes of time on YouTube have a ton more of a following. People are impatient and don't care. They really don't. People who know my channel also don't care to help. Should they? well, if they cared, yes. But they don't care, or care enough.
So yes, it's a Failure.
Music: Getting and being an expert in progressive rock, Getting bands like dredg, Kaddisfly, Small Leaks Sink Ships, sElf, Pepe Deluxe...all these bands that way more people should know and like, DON'T. And Kevin Gilbert..same story. From a numbers standpoint, no they don't care and don't give a shit. It's only a small number of individual people who have ever reached out to me and cited me. And for those, I totally appreciate it. But, it should be more. Frankly, WAY MORE. Even in some cases when I review something or talk about a band or artist 1st, am I cited?..no. Not very often. It's not fair, but regardless, it's a failure for the most part.
"Theoretically none of that should matter" -James Bickers
It's still a failure if the goal is to be credited as being 1st to the punch or even helping out that little band out.
Psych: Myself along with my friend John did a podcast, that was low-fidelity and not setup with RSS. Or most importantly, not really acknowledged by the people involved with the show. FAILURE for sure.
And the show itself is not referenced or talked about as much as it should. Other shows, sitcoms and things are more so.
CON: I tried doing things at CONvergence and even MarsCON. Like a room with sync-ing movies with albums. Or even being able to use another guy's room to do that. It never happened. Complete failure. That may have been the whole great-idea-on-paper that wasn't practical. Paying ROYALTIES and then all the babblinng on in the busy areas in the hotel killed most of it. It sucks. Too Much Money and work
Sorry, but I didn't have the time and money to invest my whole year into planning a weekend like that. Too many Hoops to jump through, Having to register over a year ahead of time, pay for passes and then the other fees, Getting a room in a good location where people will find it. Blah Blah Blah
No, and the social aspect of CON sort of went downhill anyway. Too clique-ish and people got offended easily...sorry, but it didn't work. But, thus a FAILURE.
Job/Work/Career: To be included later or elsewhere
Marriage/Relationships: Before I met Joyce, my longest relationship was like 1 month, lol. Women never approached me. Finding a woman into my interests was super rare and challenging. Now with Joyce, it was not identical interests and passions either, but somehow it didn't matter for her and me. We made it work But I can't say my goal of finding a woman who loved my music or other things was a major success with Joyce. But the relationship and love was. Except now, she is gone. So, it was not a Failure for how long it lasted, but it wasn't a lifelong success, not due to any fault of my own.
Should I have bugged her to go get a physical? yes. Survivors guilt now.Joyce was strong willed and super stubborn, so I was trying to keep the peace, But did I FAIL her in that sense? maybe. Her Fate with her health may not have been much better had I. So, it wasn't necessarily a failure for what I could have done. However comparing it to so many others I know who have or may have lifelong relationshis and marriages?..yeah sadly, even my marriage of almost 9 years and 14+ year relationship still feels like a failure.
But I was born with a health condition when I was an infant, and I may not have not survived it. I'm not sure, so in that sense I am a success by still being here at this point, if I want to look at it that way. Had I not survived, I wouldn't have tried to do all this stuff though.
I may publish a book some day, or actually feel like I received more gratification from the things in my life I (have tried) to do. But that remains to happen or be seen. I am trying my best to keep going, But to deny that a lot of these things I hoped for 1 result, did not find that result at this point, is something I can't deny I believe.
But what is the common denominator with all of this stuff? ..ME
But as I posted on Threads the other day
This is pretty ridiculous, how many sites I have to share this stuff. But o well, I'll do the fucking legwork still.
Songs that made me Cry: When In Rome - The Promise
"I'm sorry but I'm just thinking of the right words to say
(I promise you)
I know they don't sound the way I planned them to be
(I promise you)"
This song just came on while I’m here at Caribou this afternoon. It’s a song I have a huge amount of nostalgia for, when I was in 7th grade, I guess it was. And when Jake Rudh started playing it on his Twitch show in 2020, it reignited my memory and melancholy to go back to the time it came out when I was 12 years old.
I shared it with Joyce in some ways, having heard it maybe 50 or more times since COVID. And now that's she's gone, it's like it only makes me want to go back in time again. Even the lyrics about apologizing, I at times felt like saying to her, and want to still say to her.
Christmas Cookies
Every year, Joyce would make Christmas Cookies to give out as gifts to her friends and family.
Chocolate Chip
Chocolate Chip + Oatmeal
Chocolate Chip + Oatmeal + Raisins
Oatmeal Raisin
Sugar cookies with sprinkles. In various shapes and things.
Butter cookies
Some included as Chanukah cookies.
Like Thanksgiving, Joyce seemed to slave over every year. She would direct Victoria and Gabino the whole time, with a lot of laughter. Gabino would put too much flower or burn a batch, etc.
My memories of those Saturdays in mid-December were gathering some of the ingredients for her or with her. Well, it might be initially with her at the store. Cub Foods was probably #1, but sometimes Walmart and Target would also be spots to find the White or Brown Sugar, Flour (and I forget the specific type of flour, but it has to be “baking” flour from memory).
Oatmeal, which multiple times she thought she or already had, or after we moved, and came over, assumed her mom had enough oatmeal. I think at least a couple of times her mom told Joyce she had the oatmeal and/or the raisins, and she didn’t, lol. I even kind of remember the 2 of them arguing over that and other things. It was both frustrating but also funny, lol. I was observing on the side. That was 1 of multiple instances I was there, wanting to help but just couldn’t. I just didn’t want to make things worse. But of course, Joyce would look at me and think “you’re my husband, you’re supposed to back me up and take my side” And I did more often than not, but I also asked myself, what the hell did I get myself into? lol.
The Eggs were a HUGE sticking point, but it was mostly in recent years. Joyce became ADAMANT they had to be JUMBO eggs from Wally (Walmart), and it was only at Super Walmart’s they had the JUMBO eggs at 1 time. This was maybe 2022 that this issue came up. I think Joyce herself bought them and I didn’t, because it was just a few years ago this requirement crossed my radar.
But inevitably what would happen is, Joyce and I would get ready for the big Saturday, and it was intended to be as early as possible. When we were living at her mom’s, we’d just have to get the kitchen ready. The tables, cookie cutters, rolling pin, plastic bins, cookie sheets, etc. It was an ordeal.
And many times, Joyce would then realize, "uh, Papa, we need more flour” “Papa, we need vanilla extract. The bottle is expired” “Papa, there is not enough butter” So I would drive over to Coopers down the street or sometimes Cub or Walmart even. And I remember at least once, Joyce calling me asking how much longer until I got home. “Where are you? C’mon Papa, it’s getting late.”
The goal was always to make enough cookies for the kids (Victoria and Gabino), Joyce herself, and the gifts. Which in the early days I was there, she needed A LOT. Those cookie bags got big and in numbers. I even think some of her aunts got them as gifts like Juanita and maybe Helen. But her friends too, and I want to say a limited amount at her work (MNHS and perhaps even Barnes and Noble and maybe General Mills, although that might have been a bit contrary given where she was working, and it was only 1 year at General Mills).
There was 1 or 2 years, the cookie baking went so late, Joyce decided, forget it. I’ll finish it Sunday. I remember 1 year, the kids were done, and she just made her own on Sunday. There was also 1 year, most of the cookies were just for the kids, per she wanted to be done with it. I forget but have a memory of her telling her friends “yeah, I didn’t make a lot this year.”
Myself? I was hanging in the living room with her mom, on my laptop. At 1 time, with Coco (my memory of Alfie is limited the 2 years I was there with him). And even 1 year I brought Latte over. Latte, Scared kitty, hid under the couch, under her mom’s bed, and eventually the backroom. He was in a place he didn’t know; thus he tried to hide. Poor little Latte. That would have been 2021 I think. I wanted him to come over to her mom’s, just once. Have Victoria and Gabino and Joyce’s mom see Latte.
I think we did hang up a stocking for Latte as well, at least 1 year.
But my job, beyond being the messenger for missing ingredients and sometimes missing baking kitchen ware that we left at our house? I would pick up lunch/dinner. Usually Pizza. On my laptop and having her mom having the tv on in the living room. Mind you, the living room and kitchen were right next to each other and both relatively small. The kitchen really only could fit at most 3 people. So even if I wanted to help, there was NO ROOM for me to help in there with Joyce, Victoria and Gabino.
But usually by 3-5pm, it was time to wrap it up. There were a few years that it was maybe closer to 6-8pm. I just remember Joyce just wanting to plop down on her mom’s bed or the recliner and go to sleep. She used to kill herself. And even when it was done, she’d be stressing about gifts for people or needing to go get something at 1 of the stores before it was gone. Makeup, clothes. Her Shop-Party often didn’t leave her mind despite her energy and brain wanting to shutoff.
She’d be like “I hope they like them.”
Kind of like making Enchiladas or Tamales during the holidays with her mom even, which maybe that can be continued in another entry.
The cookies were made today (12/20/25) with the kids leading the way, and her mom’s oven not working. We used the kids Toaster Oven and Joyce and my “Breville” big toaster oven. Although only the Choc+Chip + Oatmeal were done today. The Sugar and Butter ones are going to be made tomorrow, I think. Joyce? I do suspect would be rolling her eyes and looking at Gabino like “Hmm, what did I teach you?” that snide sarcastic smirk of hers. And without her mom’s oven? She would have yelled at her mom and maybe me. She might have considered insisting on making them at the kids house or our house even. But then again, having them come over to our house?..Joyce would have also had issue with that. No TV right now for her mom anyway, so I might conclude the Toaster Ovens at her Mom’s would have to work this year. But she would have been adamant that next year, her mom’s oven needs to be work for the cookies.
I'm really fucking sick and tired of seeing people judging myself and others on the timeline thing.
I'm also sick of facing some reality that if I were to date and be in a relationship with another woman again, I have to
a) not be regularly if not frequently talking about Joyce
b) not be crying over things involving or related to her or her and I's relationship
SHE WILL ALWAYS BE TALKED ABOUT AND THOUGHT ABOUT UNTIL THE DAY I DIE.
AND ANY OTHER WOMAN WHO I AM IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH WILL NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, FOR YEARS, DECADES EVEN.
If that prevents me from ever having another relationship, so be it I guess. Although that in a lot of ways gives me reason not to want to stick around as long as I could I suppose.
If you're one of those people, women specifically who think "You need to get over her" or "You're not ready because all you do is think about and talk about your late wife"
and even if you're a Widow yourself, you can go FUCK YOURSELF!
That to me is some of the most INSENSITIVE, JUDGEMENTAL OPINIONS that could be said to someone whose suffering.
I was with Joyce. I don't know if it was supposed to be now or many years back.
I know I was consoling and hugging her but she also was at the doctor's office. But I was a little hesistant to get close to her in that others were around to see. Why I wonder if it was actually many years ago, earlier in the time we were dating or now.
That's all I can remember now.
My light in my living room, well multiple lights sort of, has been flickering a lot over the last few days. I sometimes wonder if it's her or just the circuit in my house. The wire or connection, etc.
Maybe someday more of this will make more sense to me, I'm unsure.
My company will be gone in the near future, and thus my job. After over 21 years being there, it will be no more in the near future, and I won't be with them. Before this blog even existed.
I can say, this has been 1 of the hardest weeks since she passed away, and I would give anything right to have her help me through this.
I know it wouldn't be easy, but like when she was furloughed or her grief when some celebrities she loved died like George Michael, Michael Nesmith, etc...I was there for her as best as I could be to give her a long, deep hug.
But, I don't have her for that for me now.
I guess that's my new normal.
Someday..someday I will write a novel length story or stories about my work there. It was for nearly half my adult life anyway. I saw so many people and things come and go in that time.
Two Thousand and Fucking Four.
It feels like ages ago, yet at the same time, it almost feels like yesterday in a way.
Ever since Joyce passed away, and her funeral, I have tried to visit her at least once a week at the Cemetery in St.Paul. And I've made every week but one that I can remember.
When I visit her I talk to her about how I'm doing, what has happened since the last time I was there. It is good therapy for me and gives me often a sense of peace. I eventually brought a lawn chair and it's normally just me sitting there, talking to her, for between 15 minutes to sometimes up to an hour.
And it's been mostly on Sunday afternoons. Late afternoon really; between 5-6:30pm. (I have often had the American Top 40 on KOWZ when I go there, which airs every Sunday Afternoon 2-6pm)
However, once we hit Daylight Savings Time, that became too late as I didn't want to go there when it was dark.
And now within the last 5 days, the temperatures have gone down enough, including snow yesterday 11/29/25 that going there, being outside, isn't as desirable to do.
So drawing inspiration/suggestion from my Aunt, I am going to start writing Joyce letters as an alternative. I'm not sure if it will be every week this Winter, per ideally I would have gone to the cemetery today, but I went to see Zootopia in Eagan, and picked up some homemade Popusas down in Rosemount from someone on Facebook. And so the timing just didn't work today. But I may manage to go on Wednesday as I have PTO that day and am going to the Minnesota History Center to celebrate Joyce's 10 Year Anniversary at MNHS (December 1, 2015 was her Orientation at the Library).
But in the mean time, I will try and write these letters. And mind you in order to do something similar if not the same things, I need to write like I talk to her, with a lot of INSIDE BASEBALL stuff that many people reading this, just won't fully understand. Like many couples, Joyce and I had our conversations about things only we knew, etc. People, names, etc.
----------------
letter removed here.
I just put this on Joyce's memoirs Substack here
This is a follow up to this little (fictional) thing I wrote a few months ago and passed along last Thursday
Sometime in the late Summer/Early Fall of 2004, I bought and heard the Toy Matinee CD, which was one of the late Kevin Gilbert’s bands. It kind of changed my life or at least introduced me to who would become my favorite musician ever.
So, when I met Joyce in 2011, at KFAI radio, we talked about our taste in music and our favorite bands and musicians. Joyce loved The Monkees and maybe even more, Michael Nesmith. So, in talking about music and getting to know each other, we made mix tapes which I believe I went over in this video on YouTube soon after she passed.
And I included “Last Plane Out” I believe on 1 of those mixes. And I later burned or maybe even lent her a copy of the Toy Matinee cd. I myself ended up listening to some Monkees and Michael Nesmith not long after that as well. Especially before we saw The Monkees in July 2011.
Well Joyce wasn’t all that grabbed by Toy Matinee. She didn’t hate it, but she wasn’t loving it enough to go back to it. So, I kind of put on hold trying to get her into Kevin Gilbert’s music for a while. Eventually I ended playing her a song titled “Finally Over You” which was only recently released on Kevin Gilbert’s estate compilation “Nuts” in 2009.
She did really dig “Finally Over You,” and came to play it occasionally on YouTube (it-was, but sadly, now is not available to stream on there or anywhere online I don’t believe).
Kevin Gilbert’s estate started releasing a lot of limited printed items more or less in 2009 and have continued through just this past Friday. A lot of unreleased recordings from his bands and solo work. In the time I was with Joyce, they came out periodically. I would estimate maybe around 20 releases, some re-released from out-of-print titles, to covers, to live recordings, to demos, etc.
I was buying them all of course, and I would almost always put them on, often in the car, so Joyce would hear them. She got to know Kevin’s voice among other things. But other than the 1 tune “Finally Over You” she never gravitated to any other tracks really.
Even when Kevin and his live Toy Matinee bandmate Marc Bonilla covered The Monkees “Pleasant Valley Sunday” on the radio once (KLOS). Kevin said though “no ba ba ba’s” lol.
Also many things would come up that I got to point out to her, with the connections Kevin Gilbert had to many musicians she enjoyed. And she rolled her eyes at me, and I couldn’t help but grin and laugh at her.
-Sheryl Crow was Kevin Gilbert’s girlfriend. Sheryl played on the live touring version of Toy Matinee in and is on “Live at the Roxy” on keys and background vocals in fact. Joyce was a pretty big Sheryl Crow fan. She enjoyed her 90’s music especially including the “Tuesday Night Music Club” album, which was in effect her debut album (she had a previous album that was and may still be unreleased though).
Much of the music on Tuesday Night Music Club album was actually written by Kevin Gilbert and his co-musicians who would jam on Tuesday nights, hence the name. Kevin was still dating Sheryl at the time. Joyce however, was not aware of who Kevin Gilbert was until meeting me, including him and the others on that album really.
-Joyce enjoyed Moulin Rouge! likely driven by one of her Hollywood guys Ewan McGregor’s role. On the soundtrack, the tune “Come What May” is included, which was composed by Tuesday Night Music Club members David Baerwald (of David + David fame also), and Kevin Gilbert.
-Christian Nesmith whose one of Michael Nesmith’s sons, is a musician himself and a progressive rock fan. Citing bands like Yes and Rush among others. He even has a close relationship with a band I love, Joyce only heard about through me, in King’s X. Christian Nesmith along with his wife Circe Link, have done many covers on YouTube (and TikTok more recently), which include two Kevin Gilbert tunes. “Parade” and “Suite Fugue” which are both from Kevin Gilbert’s posthumously released rock opera “The Shaming of the True.”
That is all from the son of Michael Nesmith, her favorite musician ever, and at 1-time, live member of The Monkees and Michael Nesmith reunited “First National Band.” And who played-on and produced Monkees work in the last decade (2016’s “Good Times” and 2018’s “Christmas Party” along with Micky Dolenz releases “Dolenz Sings Nesmith” and “Dolenz Sings R.E.M.”).
-Neil Peart, the late drummer from Rush, cited a few times loving The Monkees. I am a huge Rush fan, but Joyce never got into them. But she found it odd and ironic how the drummer for one of my favorite bands loved her favorite band.
-Kevin Gilbert engineered “Black or White” from Michael Jackson and worked with Patrick Leonard of course as part of Toy Matinee. Patrick Leonard being the producer of several of Madonna’s biggest albums in the 80’s. Joyce was a rather big fan of both MJ and Madonna
To quote my friend John “Sometimes my people are your people.” But Joyce dismissed that idea, kind of not wanting to accept it if not in disbelief. Joyce did not like progressive rock. “It hurts my brain!” "You can't dance to it" and “It has no soul,” but as it turns out, some of her taste aligned with some of it oddly. Daryl Hall (of Hall & Oates who Joyce loved) worked with Robert Fripp of King Crimson on one of his solo albums, etc.
Even Michael Nesmith himself made the concept album The Prison, and The Monkees did the experimental film Head, which includes a cameo from progressive musician and friend of Michael Nesmith’s, Frank Zappa (who also appeared on a Monkees episode with Nez)
Even the 2nd time we saw one of the modern bands she enjoyed, The Bird & the Bee (which was just half the band, Inara George per the other half, Greg Kurstin didn’t and may still not actually tour live), there was a group of my fellow progressive rock fans at the show. Joyce came to roll her eyes thinking the “Prog fans” enjoyed her band and music, lol. But it happened, or happens, much to her dismay and lack of ability to understand why.
As the years went by, Joyce would make comments about Kevin Gilbert to me. “Thanks Kevin, I didn’t need to know that” or “Sorry Kevin” or “Oh, it’s Kevin.”
One was “he’s not hot.” She said something to the effect just like a year ago. “He’s not bad looking, but he’s like Where’s Waldo.” “He looks clean and nice, and is a talented musician and singer, but he doesn’t have that striking, hot sexy look that many women can be drawn to” “He didn’t make it big, and it seems part of it was because his looks.” “Like, he’s not bad looking, but he’s doesn’t really have it like George Michael.”
Which oddly enough about George Michael, Kevin Gilbert once said about his tune “Careless Whisper” and the lyric “guilty feet have got no rhythm” was genius. I don’t recall if/when I mentioned that to Joyce, what her reaction was. It likely was just “yeah, thanks Kevin.”
The commentary that I passed along to her at times with Sheryl Crow and Kevin Gilbert fans struck a bit of a nerve with her. She came to look down on some of them; although not me, mind you. I never was into Sheryl Crow’s music really but did not beat a dead horse bringing up the fact he died after they broke up. How he took his own life, and fans blamed Sheryl Crow for it. The sort of rivalry they had a bit after that and her album won Grammys, and it took some work to have all the credits being given to Kevin and the members of the Tuesday Night Music Club.
The Kevin Gilbert fans have historically made comments for years online, and even some articles written. Joyce would give me comebacks to them, talking about how many of the Kevin Gilbert fans were super bitter and misguided in their blaming her, etc. Which I didn’t and can’t disagree with her about. What happened to Kevin Gilbert and his reaching and failing to fully “make it big” in the music industry and even Hollywood to a degree, had much to do with his own personality sadly.
Sheryl had the quote in 1 of the stories I’ll never forget “Kevin was one of the most self-destructive people I’ve ever met” which came out in an article written not long after he died, and Sheryl may have been bitter about things. How some people within his circles viewed her. I guess at his funeral perhaps. I’m not sure. I do suspect now so many decades later even, Sheryl wouldn’t necessarily use those words or may not quite feel that way about him still.
She did mention and include a little about Kevin in the documentary, Sheryl, about her a couple of years ago. Although Sheryl Crow I think had creative control of it, so the amount of content about Kevin Gilbert in it was maybe limited, if for no other reason, but to not create any tension among his fans (time of course as well). I see that, per it’s sort of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If she had talked in-depth about Kevin, it would raise potential controversy. But when she did not talk much about him, of course many Kevin Gilbert fans wonder why, and think she could still be bitter, etc. It was probably best to limit it, and avoid as much content about a potentially sensitive topic still.
Kevin Gilbert would have turned 59 this past week on November 20th. He will always be a favorite of mine, but also a musician who Joyce had mixed feelings about, despite my longtime obsession with his music. My interest to want more people to hear and hopefully discover his music.
There is this appearance on Used Bin Radio in 2011 with Joyce and I where the hosts Brad and Joe bring up Sheryl Crow and Joyce’s take on her music and Kevin Gilbert’s among others. I introduce her at the 12:45 mark, and she is on from the 13:19-24:48 mark.
There’s also this recent opinionated video that sums up a lot of it, although the creator doesn’t consider anything over the last 29 years with Sheryl, although some of the comments do.
In The Shaming of the True and on a live record “Live at the Troubadour,” Kevin Gilbert references and alludes to Sheryl on songs like “Fun” (“Sheryl’s in the kitchen with the LA Lakers”) and “Miss Broadway.” It didn’t occur to me until a few years ago, “Fun” is blatantly a reference to the lyric on “All I Wanna Do” “All I Want to do is have some fun.” Joyce though, never heard either, which probably was for the best. I generally made and kept the peace with this whole situation. Much like avoiding questioning her lack of appreciation or even respect in some ways for The Beatles, bringing up conflict with Sheryl and Kevin was not somewhere I went with Joyce per I knew she would give me an earful, and the end result wouldn’t be beneficial.
Joyce was always like that with me. She didn’t pull many if any punches, regardless that it was about someone or something I love (Beavis and Butthead in recent years as well). Despite my hoping to connect with her with things I love, it often didn’t work. I was not happy for that, but I still respected that about her.